Comments on: On Breathing, Painting and Sweden http://www.calacirian.org/?p=674 Ravine of Light Fri, 01 Mar 2013 20:46:39 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9 hourly 1 By: Calacirian » Pushing My Own Envelope (part 1 in a series) http://www.calacirian.org/?p=674&cpage=1#comment-33610 Calacirian » Pushing My Own Envelope (part 1 in a series) Sun, 30 Dec 2007 15:44:41 +0000 http://www.calacirian.org/?p=674#comment-33610 [...] while ago my friend Mr. Bill and I publicly revealed that we have an agreement. We’ve agreed to always agree. When we don’t agree, well, we’ll disagree to [...] [...] while ago my friend Mr. Bill and I publicly revealed that we have an agreement. We’ve agreed to always agree. When we don’t agree, well, we’ll disagree to [...]

]]> By: Ross http://www.calacirian.org/?p=674&cpage=1#comment-24547 Ross Fri, 19 Oct 2007 01:24:14 +0000 http://www.calacirian.org/?p=674#comment-24547 "I get confused when I don’t see a clear enemy, just lots of hurt and misunderstanding" I can see that Ken. Sorry to put you (and others) in my crosshairs like that... that wasn't fair. “I get confused when I don’t see a clear enemy, just lots of hurt and misunderstanding”

I can see that Ken. Sorry to put you (and others) in my crosshairs like that… that wasn’t fair.

]]> By: Ken http://www.calacirian.org/?p=674&cpage=1#comment-24517 Ken Thu, 18 Oct 2007 19:15:35 +0000 http://www.calacirian.org/?p=674#comment-24517 I think there can be a middle ground between blithely standing by or jumping into the fray and taking sides. For me, I often see brokenness and mistakes from both sides of a conflict. I actually think it is possible to (try to) support all parties involved and pray for peace and healing. Typically I don't run from a fight, but I get confused when I don't see a clear enemy, just lots of hurt and misunderstanding. In situations where you love and care for both person(s) in a conflict, you are left rather helpless (the emotions remind me of how I felt when my parents fought as a child, if that is not too strange of a comparison...). I think there can be a middle ground between blithely standing by or jumping into the fray and taking sides. For me, I often see brokenness and mistakes from both sides of a conflict. I actually think it is possible to (try to) support all parties involved and pray for peace and healing. Typically I don’t run from a fight, but I get confused when I don’t see a clear enemy, just lots of hurt and misunderstanding. In situations where you love and care for both person(s) in a conflict, you are left rather helpless (the emotions remind me of how I felt when my parents fought as a child, if that is not too strange of a comparison…).

]]> By: Sonja http://www.calacirian.org/?p=674&cpage=1#comment-23970 Sonja Sat, 13 Oct 2007 16:04:15 +0000 http://www.calacirian.org/?p=674#comment-23970 Wow ... thank you, Patrick. That's a powerful bit of writing and I will cherish it along with Grace's poem. There is healing balm in both. Wow … thank you, Patrick. That’s a powerful bit of writing and I will cherish it along with Grace’s poem. There is healing balm in both.

]]> By: Patrick http://www.calacirian.org/?p=674&cpage=1#comment-23969 Patrick Sat, 13 Oct 2007 15:04:52 +0000 http://www.calacirian.org/?p=674#comment-23969 "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me." I read your post and I can't help think that you've gained an insight into Jesus' trial. Gone beyond the polysyllabic words that make for doctrinal arguments. What did Jesus feel when Judas kissed him? What was it like standing in the room with the priests and high priests being accused in front of his one time followers? Passed around to Pilate to Herod and back, making the news of the city. His friends abandoning, denying him. Jesus who had done no wrong, ever, condemned, insulted, beaten, humiliated, naked before the city, reduced to nothingness before everyone. I suspect you could give a very insightful look into Jesus' heart, the one that was crying out in agony in Gethsemane in anticipation. He, of course, said those famous words on the cross, "Father forgive them, they know not what they do" not long before crying out his godforsakenness. But the ultimate reconciliation, I think, wasn't just about Jesus' openness. It was also about the response to him after and later. Peter repented, and was restored. Which says to me that all we can do is our part. Somehow letting go and remaining open. In case the other side too decides to reconcile and find their freedom from their assault. You have the chance to be free. It sounds like those in your past might not, and are going to be shackled in ministry and in spirituality unless they too let go and seek your reconciliation. Which brings a person from anger to pity. The desert is lonely, but there's freedom. And sometimes ravens come with sustenance (1 Kings 17). :-D Much better than being in the prison of self-satisfied religiosity. Because it might be lonely. But there's hope. Hope for when we see Jesus, who understands and was there in that living room with you, recognizing the faces of his own accusers. “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me.”

I read your post and I can’t help think that you’ve gained an insight into Jesus’ trial. Gone beyond the polysyllabic words that make for doctrinal arguments.

What did Jesus feel when Judas kissed him? What was it like standing in the room with the priests and high priests being accused in front of his one time followers? Passed around to Pilate to Herod and back, making the news of the city. His friends abandoning, denying him. Jesus who had done no wrong, ever, condemned, insulted, beaten, humiliated, naked before the city, reduced to nothingness before everyone.

I suspect you could give a very insightful look into Jesus’ heart, the one that was crying out in agony in Gethsemane in anticipation.

He, of course, said those famous words on the cross, “Father forgive them, they know not what they do” not long before crying out his godforsakenness.

But the ultimate reconciliation, I think, wasn’t just about Jesus’ openness. It was also about the response to him after and later. Peter repented, and was restored.

Which says to me that all we can do is our part. Somehow letting go and remaining open. In case the other side too decides to reconcile and find their freedom from their assault. You have the chance to be free. It sounds like those in your past might not, and are going to be shackled in ministry and in spirituality unless they too let go and seek your reconciliation.

Which brings a person from anger to pity. The desert is lonely, but there’s freedom. And sometimes ravens come with sustenance (1 Kings 17). :-D

Much better than being in the prison of self-satisfied religiosity. Because it might be lonely. But there’s hope. Hope for when we see Jesus, who understands and was there in that living room with you, recognizing the faces of his own accusers.

]]> By: Sonja http://www.calacirian.org/?p=674&cpage=1#comment-23968 Sonja Sat, 13 Oct 2007 12:56:15 +0000 http://www.calacirian.org/?p=674#comment-23968 Grace, the poem is beautiful. I just wish I had a better word for it. Thank you. Grace, the poem is beautiful. I just wish I had a better word for it. Thank you.

]]> By: Paul http://www.calacirian.org/?p=674&cpage=1#comment-23963 Paul Sat, 13 Oct 2007 07:57:30 +0000 http://www.calacirian.org/?p=674#comment-23963 oh bum :( oh bum :(

]]> By: grace http://www.calacirian.org/?p=674&cpage=1#comment-23961 grace Sat, 13 Oct 2007 06:02:25 +0000 http://www.calacirian.org/?p=674#comment-23961 Sonja, You are right that reconciliation is not possible under the circumstances. It is difficult to come to terms with the fact that relationships that you had truly invested in were really a facade, simply organizational relationships. The groupthink is a combination of the elements you have already discussed and usually also includes blind obedience and social climbing. I posted this poem on my blog 2 years after we left our church. It poured out of the crushing hopelessness I felt at the time. I remember the sometimes suffocating pain of grief and loneliness. I have no pat answers for you. I've been trying to decide if sharing it would be helpful to you or not, so if it's not, please just erase this comment. I just wanted you to know that I understand your pain, and I wish I could make it better. <b>A Life Erased</b> A life erased by whispered lies. A history that vanished while the future dies, A destiny not chosen scarred by dreams despised. Turning away from hurt but finding anger in its place, Fleeing from bitterness but seeing only vast, empty space. Is there no way of escape, no way out of this dark night? A path of grief and shame, no glimpse of hope in sight. If no one sees you, do you really exist? If no one hears you, do you have a voice? If no one cares, does it really matter? If no one knows, is it even true? A life erased, by whispered lies. Sonja,
You are right that reconciliation is not possible under the circumstances. It is difficult to come to terms with the fact that relationships that you had truly invested in were really a facade, simply organizational relationships. The groupthink is a combination of the elements you have already discussed and usually also includes blind obedience and social climbing.

I posted this poem on my blog 2 years after we left our church. It poured out of the crushing hopelessness I felt at the time. I remember the sometimes suffocating pain of grief and loneliness. I have no pat answers for you. I’ve been trying to decide if sharing it would be helpful to you or not, so if it’s not, please just erase this comment. I just wanted you to know that I understand your pain, and I wish I could make it better.

A Life Erased

A life erased
by whispered lies.

A history that vanished
while the future dies,
A destiny not chosen
scarred by dreams despised.

Turning away from hurt
but finding anger in its place,
Fleeing from bitterness
but seeing only vast, empty space.

Is there no way of escape,
no way out of this dark night?
A path of grief and shame,
no glimpse of hope in sight.

If no one sees you,
do you really exist?
If no one hears you,
do you have a voice?

If no one cares,
does it really matter?
If no one knows,
is it even true?

A life erased,
by whispered lies.

]]> By: Erin http://www.calacirian.org/?p=674&cpage=1#comment-23959 Erin Sat, 13 Oct 2007 04:45:35 +0000 http://www.calacirian.org/?p=674#comment-23959 I sent you an e-mail on this. You're brave for being so public with your pain, but I felt mine better suited to private. I sent you an e-mail on this. You’re brave for being so public with your pain, but I felt mine better suited to private.

]]> By: Bill Kinnon http://www.calacirian.org/?p=674&cpage=1#comment-23909 Bill Kinnon Sat, 13 Oct 2007 02:10:29 +0000 http://www.calacirian.org/?p=674#comment-23909 Ross, I wish I could answer your questions. Perhaps you represent a messenger of truth to them - and it's much easier to shoot the messenger than believe the truth. We are all wounded, broken and confused...in need of a Savior. Fortunately, we have One. I pray that He help us all extinguish the flames of anger that still burn - or at least use those flames to burn away the dross in our own lives. Lord, help me to forgive, as I have been forgiven. Ross,
I wish I could answer your questions. Perhaps you represent a messenger of truth to them – and it’s much easier to shoot the messenger than believe the truth.

We are all wounded, broken and confused…in need of a Savior. Fortunately, we have One. I pray that He help us all extinguish the flames of anger that still burn – or at least use those flames to burn away the dross in our own lives.

Lord, help me to forgive, as I have been forgiven.

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